Call Start: 14:15 Call End: 14:48 January 1, 4539 ET
General Motors Co (NYSE:GM)
Evercore ISI 2nd Annual Technology, Media & Telcom Conference Call
September 08, 2022, 14:15 ET
Company Participants
Travis Katz – CEO, BrightDrop
Conference Call Participants
Christopher McNally – Evercore ISI
Christopher McNally
Well, welcome, everyone, to one of the last sessions of, actually, of the day, but we’re leaving really the best for last. So I wanted to welcome to the stage, Travis Katz, CEO of GM’s BrightDrop. Travis, first, thank you so much for presenting for the first time.
For those of you who may not be familiar now, BrightDrop produces and sells electric delivery vans and last-mile delivery logistics for GM. And it’s one of the few comps to someone like Rivian’s commercial van and Ford’s successful transit model.
The vans already have 25,000 in terms of an order book, including 2,500 from large players like FedEx; 5,000 from Walmart; 18,000 from Merchant Fleet, and really sort of looking to benefit from building off the valley of inertia like we like to talk about as a team in EV van uptake over the next coming years.
GM forecasts $10 billion plus in revenue and 20% margins in 2030 for BrightDrop and quotes extremely impressive cost of ownership benefits, we’ll get to that, for zero electric vans, where yearly savings could be up to $7,000 on fuel and maintenance.
And again, with that, Travis, thank you so much for being here. And I pass it over to you because I think you can probably tell the story a little bit better than we can.
Travis Katz
Great. Yes. Thanks, Chris, and thanks, everyone, for being here. So I’ve got a couple of slides. And I think, Chris, did a great introduction, but I want to talk a little bit about why are we in this business. So what was the thinking about why would GM be going into sort of the last-mile delivery space.
So at the highest level, there’s — the backdrop of the decision to go in here was sort of 2 big mega trends that are shaping the industry. And this is just a really exciting time. The first of those is electrification. And I think everyone’s familiar with the story, but we are finally at the point where we’re reaching the tipping point in EVs.
As you can see on this slide, in North America, in the United States, EVs crossed 6.5% share of total vehicles sold. That’s a record number. That’s up threefold from where it was just 18 months earlier. So we’re really at the moment where EVs are going mainstream. And by the way, this isn’t a supply-constrained market that you’re seeing this kind of growth.
In the commercial market, we think it’s going to electrify even further. As Chris was saying, commercial buyers buy on TCO, total cost of ownership. And so they really understand the benefits, and the benefits are substantial.
The other big megatrend that’s shaping where things are going is e-commerce. And I think we’re all pretty aware from our own behavior. So think about your groceries or your Amazon packages. E-commerce is massive. It’s a $4 trillion business last year, grew 27% year-on-year. It’s up 3x from 2015, and it’s continuing to grow. The pandemic actually accelerated this. And whenever you see a market that’s growing like this, obviously, you see there’s a big business opportunity. There’s a lot of money to be made and a lot of opportunity to do it.
What we’re seeing, though, is not only is it a big opportunity, but it’s creating a lot of challenges. So the delivery company, so think the UPS and the FedEx and the Amazons, are really buckling under the weight of this growth. They’re really struggling to keep up. They’re facing labor shortages. They’re facing logistical challenges and trying to figure out how can we continue to grow and grow profitably. And this increased growth in delivery is also having real negative externalities that are creating challenges for the rest of us. So in particular, on the climate side, emissions, congestion in urban areas, we’ll talk briefly about each of these, but these need to be addressed.
So I think we all know the story on the carbon emission side. So this is a chart I’d like to show. This is the average atmospheric CO2 concentration over the last 850 million years. So you can see, there’s always been fluctuation but within a pretty narrow band. We are now way outside of the norm. You can see the line there where homo sapiens first appeared on the planet. And this is having real life consequences. So we’ve had the fires in California; the floods recently in Kentucky; took out the water system in Jackson; heat domes in California, China and Europe simultaneously going on right now.
So there’s urgency here. And I think policymakers are really looking for solutions on the climate side. And all of the big players, just to go back, all the big players have pledged to do something about this. So Amazon, Walmart, FedEx have all made pledges to get to net zero by 2035, and they’re looking for solutions of how are they going to get there. That’s an opportunity.
On the congestion side, this is something — I love this picture. This was taken just a few blocks from here last year. But this is something that’s happening all over every urban area. If you start to have more and more deliveries, you need more and more vans. And as you start to put more and more vans in a fixed urban infrastructure, you can expand the streets in New York to make them wider. You start to have seems like this.
So here, you see there’s a van that is not only taking over the side walk and the sort of curbside lane, but also taking an entire lane of traffic where they’re sorting and unloading packages. So this is obviously creating major traffic swirls. People are being late to pick up their kids. They’re going to miss their flight because of this. It’s also unsafe. So you can imagine, you have couriers stepping off into lanes of traffic. You have bicyclists who are trying to get around this sort of mess.
Cities are taking notice. This doesn’t really work. You can’t keep putting more trucks into the system or the entire system grows to a halt. So cities need solutions. Delivery companies need solutions. And that’s where BrightDrop comes in.
So at BrightDrop, we are not just doing electric vehicles, although that is part of what we’re doing, but we’re actually developing a holistic suite of products aimed at last-mile delivery companies to help these companies scale faster, keep up with growth, lower their costs while also lowering their carbon emissions and helping deal with challenges of the urban congestion.
So we have 3 product lines that we’ve announced so far. The first is our Zevo electric van. This is a purpose-built EV for last-mile delivery, and we can talk more about the details, but really designed specifically for this last-mile use case and sort of the ergonomics and how do you make it more efficient.
We have a large van, the EV600, which is the one I have on here. We also have a shorter van, the EV400, which is more for grocery and sort of shorter-cycle deliveries. We also have what’s called the TRACE eCart. So this is an electrically propelled container that’s designed to move goods over short distances, say, from the truck to the front door. So when you think about the congestion problem, this is where we start to take a look at that. So rather than having a delivery driver with a dolly do 5 trips back and forth from the truck to do a single apartment building, you can deploy these and do an entire building in one go. It’s massive gains and efficiency. You can put 200 pounds — 250 pounds of packages in here, and it feels effortless because it’s got electric propulsion.
We tested these with FedEx in New York and in Toronto. They were able to deliver 25% more packages per day using these, and they were able to reduce their curbside dwell time. So how long a truck is sitting there blocking lane of traffic. By 50%. So it’s a game changer, and I think a really big opportunity.
And finally, they’re softwares. So I’m a software entrepreneur by background. And for me, this is one of the most exciting aspects of the BrightDrop business. So all of our products, our Zevos, our Trace eCart, these are all connected Internet of Things devices. They’re streaming data back to the cloud. And we’re building software that will give their owners more visibility, insights and control than what has been possible before.
And so when you think about logistics as ultimately an optimization problem of how do we most efficiently move packages from all the — from this warehouse to all these addresses, when you start to have the data to really see what’s going on in real time and to be able to track things, chain of custody, where are things getting stuck, there’s a lot of value to be unlocked here. So we’re really excited about that.
So that’s [indiscernible] — I mean Samsara. So Samsara, for those of you who don’t know Samsara, they’re an Internet of Things companies. So they’re basically putting devices into vehicles or other things that can send data back. There are some similarities in — mostly Samsara’s focused on basic telematics stuff. We’re going much beyond telematics really into logistics and logistics optimization. But there will be some overlap. So we are also sending back, yes.
Christopher McNally
Were you doing the full service exactly?
Travis Katz
The full service, yes. So anyway, that’s — this is in a nutshell, what we’re doing at BrightDrop as an introduction. And Chris, you guys have some questions?
Question-and-Answer Session
Christopher McNally
Fantastic, Travis. And I think that sense of urgency was where I was going to start, because BrightDrop was, correct if I’m wrong, really started about 2 years ago.
Travis Katz
2020
Christopher McNally
Right? And the progress to commercialization, FedEx just took delivery of their first 150 Zevo 600.
Travis Katz
Yes.
Christopher McNally
Can you just give us an idea — you could start with FedEx or more broadly just how that commercialization is going? What are sort of some of the milestones that we can expect in some of the first deployments over the next year or 24 months.
Travis Katz
Yes. So this business, I think, caught everyone by surprise with the speed at which we’re bringing this up. So we did just unveil this business in January of 2021. We delivered our first vehicle to FedEx, that was on the road delivering packages in December of 2021. So that was the fastest vehicle GM has ever brought to market. It was 20 total months from the start of the vehicle to conception. It normally takes 5 years. And then we’ve been hitting milestone after milestone for that. So we’ve got 150 vehicles now on the road. I think that’s the largest deployment of electric delivery vans in the U.S. These aren’t test vans. They’re delivering packages. They’ve done more than 90,000 miles on these vans in the last 3 months alone.
And we’re seeing great results. As you mentioned at the beginning, we’ve got more than 25,000 sort of reservations and commitments from customers like Walmart, from Verizon, from FedEx and a bunch of where we haven’t publicly announced. We’re seeing a great response from customers. So the exciting thing about this — and I think when you really look at the startups versus what you can do as a big OEM, so where startups have always had challenges is how do you scale. It’s easy to build a handful of vehicles. It’s very hard to build a lot of those.
Because we have General Motors behind us, and we have the Ultium platform, scale is something that we feel very confident we will be doing very quickly. We are opening our big factory called CAMI in Q4 of this year. And we’re going to be ramping production very aggressively next year and aiming to have 50,000 units a year coming out by 2025, but we’ll get up that hill very quickly.
Christopher McNally
And with speed to market comes always some speed bumps.
Travis Katz
Sure.
Christopher McNally
Can you talk about a couple of those? One of the ones that we always talk about with mass EV adoption, particularly on the commercial side, is charging. So can you talk about how you sort of got around the chicken and egg issue in last mile and in mile delivery in terms of charging?
Travis Katz
Yes. So I wouldn’t say we’re around the chicken and the egg. So charging, I think, for commercial customers is going to be the one gating factor on how quickly — and the defining factor, I think, on how quickly this market unfolds. So what we know from a TCO perspective, switching from a diesel step van to a BrightDrop van is a no-brainer. So on average, customers are going to save between $10,000 and $12,000 per vehicle per year going from a diesel to a BrightDrop. So that’s pretty easy to do.
Christopher McNally
And that could be 50% in terms of a reduction on fuel costs, Yes?
Travis Katz
Yes. It’s dramatic. And because these guys, they calculate down to the penny how much they’re spending in TCO, unlike the retail market who sort of think about sticker price, those conversations are very, very easy.
The charging infrastructure is harder. So if you’re putting a charger in your home, that’s pretty straightforward. If you want to charge 100 vehicles at once, that’s a bigger undertaking. You need to sometimes engage with the utility and you need to get in queues with the utilities. Often these guys are leasing their depots. And so instead of owning them, there’s a landlord involved. So they’re all working through how do we do this quicker. So they’ve all got installations and learning, and they’re staffing up teams to be able to accelerate this. And similarly, the utilities are staffing up teams because a lot of the utilities are understaffed to take all the requests that are coming in right now.
We see our job is how do we make this easy for customers. And so GM announced an initiative called Ultium Charge 360, which has enabled us — we’re partnering with a lot of the big charging infrastructure providers. Specifically for fleets, we’ve got 4 EVgo, eTrans Energy, Schneider Electric and InCharge that we’re working with. We’ve got a partnership with them, so we can bring them in with customers to have the discussions and help them map out their charging needs and how they want to do this. That’s helping a lot. And GM as a whole is investing very heavily in charging infrastructure. So you probably saw, there’s — I think we announced $750 million…
Christopher McNally
So you can leverage also what we’re seeing on the passenger and the retail side, agreements like EVgo?
Travis Katz
Correct. Yes. And then what we are doing on the software side is we have this telematics connectivity with the vehicle. So part of what we need to make sure that we’re doing is helping customers think about charging optimization. And so you will get your $12,000 of TCO savings as long as you’re smart about how you charge. If you start charging your vehicles during peak time, that’s not going to be as efficient. So we need to make sure customers don’t learn those lessons the hard way and that we can really help them optimize their charging. So that’s part of what we do at the software side.
Christopher McNally
And charging comes up the most and even on the passenger side for electric. But on commercial, what about city planning, is there red tape? Is there other things that you’re working on that makes the drive forward and penetration easier?
Travis Katz
Yes. So it’s — the hard thing about on the infrastructure side, so if you’re doing small numbers of vehicles, it’s pretty easy. It’s like a home charger. And so that’s pretty straightforward. If you’re doing a really big depot, there has to be an assessment of do you have enough power coming into that facility to handle that. And if you don’t, then you may need to upgrade a substation. You have to engage with usually the local utility, and there are hundreds of utilities across the country. And so companies like FedEx or Amazon, who have a national footprint, have to figure out, okay, how are we going to work with all of these different utilities to get it done? That’s why we’re bringing in partners like the EVgos and the Schneiders, they have all those relationships. They know how to do this. They know how to work with utilities. So it makes it much easier to get things up to speed. And so most of the customers are working through partners that we’re either — we’re connecting with or they’re connecting with on their own.
So I think we’ll get there. This is going to be — the next sort of 18 months are going to be a little bit of a learning curve as people figure out how do we do this at scale. But they will get it done because the economics are so compelling that it’s worth the learning curve, I guess.
Christopher McNally
And maybe we could talk a little bit about the competitive side. I know Doug had a couple of questions.
Unidentified Analyst
Sure. Yes. So we’re first going to go very basic here. Who do you today view as your biggest competitors? Is it someone like Ford transit? Is it the upcoming Rivian delivery van where there’s a partnership with Amazon? It’s the Rampromaster? What’s the competitive set?
Travis Katz
Yes. So in some instances, part of what sets BrightDrop apart is we’re looking not just at EVs, but we’re looking holistically at building an ecosystem products and how do you make last-mile delivery more efficient. There is nobody else in the market who’s taking that approach. And I can tell you, when we talk to any of the big delivery companies, they find that very refreshing because we actually understand what are the pain points that they’re facing. And we’re bringing solutions that are helping them not just, okay, how do I swap out one vehicle for another, but how do I actually grow smarter and sort of continue to scale.
And so I think the kind of relationship we’re going to have with partners is going to be just much deeper than we’re a supplier of vehicles. When I look at the vehicle competitor set, there’s basically 2 buckets. There’s the traditional OEs and then there’s the startups. The traditional OEs are mostly — they mostly have generic cargo vans. You mentioned the e-transit. So these are not purpose-built for delivery.
So a lot of the things that we did. So when we were designing the Zevo, we spent hundreds of hours in the field on ride-alongs. So our engineering team and our design teams ride-alongs with real couriers to understand how are they running these routes and what are the pain points they’re facing. And we designed the vehicle to resolve those pain points.
So because it’s built from the ground-up EV, we can take the step-in height down by several inches. That doesn’t sound like a lot, but these couriers are often getting in and out of these vehicles 100 times a day. And so the wear and tear on your knees, if you’re getting in and out, makes a big difference. We have a wide bulkhead door, so it’s very easy to go straight from the cabin into the back with a package, and we’ve created a staging area in the front. So it’s really designed around how do we make it more comfortable and easy for the drivers. For the traditional cargo vans, you’ve got these swing doors that are dangerous in urban environments. You have to get out and go around to get cargo out. You lose a lot of efficiency with that traditional form factor. And those are also generally converted. They just took their ice vehicle and crammed some batteries in. So you have really subpar range and performance overall. Ours is really purpose-built.
On the startup side, I think there’s some interesting products out there. I think as we all learned watching the growth of Tesla, that it is hard to go from a few units to scaling and Elon Musk tweets about this constantly about it. It was very, very hard to scale. So I think it remains to be seen on the start-up side who’s going to be able to scale and how quickly can companies get up that scaling curve.
Unidentified Analyst
Great. I think it would also be sort of interesting to dive into Ultium here and understand how that platform, that all encompassing skateboard has helped some of your customers realize that $10,000 to $12,000 total cost of ownership advantage and the advantages that, that provides you as a start-up within a larger company when trying to gain traction.
Travis Katz
Yes. I think one of the things that people are starting to wake up to is that GM has sort of gone vertically integrated into the whole stack. So we’re not just building vehicles and sourcing batteries, but we’re designing batteries through our joint venture partner and sort of taking the whole stack. And that gives us a lot more control. It settles things down on the supply chain side. And ultimately, it gives us scale that is going to be hard for other people to match.
And so when we look at the Ultium, we’re getting all the scale of all the vehicles that GM announced. And we announced this morning that the Equinox EV, which is going to be a huge product, the more EVs we launch, the more that’s going to drive our battery cost down because we have a shared platform across all those things. And this is one that’s strategic. GM has been very much focused on the long game of how are we going to drive cost down over time, where a lot of people are sort of, call it, baling wire and duct tape, but sort of just throwing stuff together and get products to market quickly as opposed to thinking strategically about how do we win over the long term.
So we see it as a huge advantage. As we move in, we’re going to have different battery sizes and options and different sort of configurations that will let customers customize how much battery they get for the specific routes that they’re doing, and we’ll be able to do that quite quickly because we own the whole thing.
Christopher McNally
Great. And just while we’re on the topic of cost reduction, everything in — the mentioned IRA bill for EVs on the commercial use at your size, you should be able to take advantage of a lot of the opportunities that are — what’s called the for commercial use.
Travis Katz
Yes. I mean we’re still — the details are still a little bit sketchy. So we’re sort of not being super definitive about exactly what that’s going to look like. But it looks quite compelling. It looks like our vehicles are very much right on target for this pretty substantial tax incentive, which we think is going to be a great — it will be great for everyone. It’s going to make mass adoption happen faster. It’s going to really get customers that are on the fence to really lean in.
So I know when we’ve been talking to customers, they’re very excited about this. And so they — everyone is waiting for that January 1 bell to ring.
Christopher McNally
Now that’s the sentiment we hear across the industry. Maybe, Travis, if we could talk to your wheelhouse of software. Can you talk about specifically — you said it was one of the most exciting things about BrightDrop. What do you think you can offer that the fleet operators today can’t? And then how are you also convincing them that this is a reason to kind of to get off that value of inertia and move forward with a new form of EV transportation?
Travis Katz
Yes, a lot actually. So just a little context. So we — I come — I’ve been working in Silicon Valley for the last 20 years, and I’ve founded a couple of companies. So I’ve been living in this space. And we have our BrightDrops, our lead offices in Palo Alto, California, right in the middle of Silicon Valley. We are building this company like a tech company. We set it up to operate as a separate wholly-owned subsidiary of GM, but we’ve set it up with some level of separation to allow us to really operate with the speed and velocity of a startup while leveraging the scale that GM brings and the advantages that GM brings.
It’s a winning combination. It’s great. When we look at what the opportunities are, there’s a lot. So first of all, the idea of the infotainment screen, where most vehicle makers they put on there and you’ve got your radio and your maps or whatever. But when you’re running last-mile delivery, you really want that as a template — as a productivity screen, where I can run my applications, helping manage my manifest, my vehicle inspection, how do I change my route as we run into construction or if new packages get picked up, those kinds of things. So we’re building an experience on that screen that will allow customers to get better productivity in the field.
We have a software suite that allows them to manage their fleet as a whole. So if you’re the fleet manager that you can see what’s happening with my vehicles in real time. You can make sure there’s technical issues, that you could see where things are located, if people are on track from a utilization perspective. But that’s just the starting point. And where we really see, like I mentioned in the beginning, is essentially, the power of machine learning and AI and how do you start to leverage that to unlock value from the data that’s going to be streaming off these things.
So we bought a small company in the spring called Marain, which is a — you have a couple of PhDs out of Berkeley. They were in the Stanford Autonomous Systems Lab. They’ve built some very advanced software that’s really designed around how to optimizing electric vehicle fleets. We’ve begun using that to really, one, help customers figure out when you’re looking at routes, where can you benefit from adopting the Trace eCart, for example, which routes actually does it make sense? Which ones does not? Help them start to be able to estimate what the value capture is. They can start to make adoption decisions without having to test things in the field in real time. But also the way things are starting to move, when we talk about the congestion problems that we saw in there, a lot of people are looking at things like micro hubs and how do you integrate eBikes and how do you integrate foot couriers and how do you sort of create sort of drop-off points near to the customers, so you don’t have to drive a truck everywhere and start to use lower cost forms of transportation to get there.
The software we are building with the Marain technology is also helping to unlock that. We’ve been piloting it with a few smaller customers. And it’s fascinating. So I think ultimately, like I said, the real win here is going to figure out how do you do more with less. And so the idea of rather than throwing more vehicles at the problem, how do you deliver the same amount of packages with fewer vehicles. And I think if we can help unlock — I don’t — there’s nobody else who’s going after this problem in this way. And so I think there’s a huge amount of upside.
Christopher McNally
I want to hold up because I want to come back to that autonomous and sort of optimization on, but we have about 6 minutes left. So I just wanted to see if anyone had any questions in the audience before I continue to ramble on.
So then if we can to the idea of autonomous and last-mile delivery, clearly, one of the benefits of being a part of GM is a leader in autonomous and on the cruise side. It’s not something that’s probably in the immediate future or maybe something we can talk about as commercialization. But can you talk about that idea of the road to — I’m sure you imagine the dream of autonomous for last-mile delivery, how you’re thinking about that commercialization years and ahead of it being ready to be deployed.
Travis Katz
Yes. We’re actively thinking about this. And we can say with certainty that autonomy is going to play a huge role in last-mile delivery. So there is no need to have humans driving vehicles on all of these routes. And one of the benefits of being part of General Motors is we have our sister company Cruise who is one of the leaders, if not the leader, in autonomous systems. So I don’t have anything specific that I can share today, but you can imagine when you have those 2 companies, the other, so you have this massively exploding e-commerce market, you have this best-in-class autonomous systems, there’s a lot you can do there.
Cruise has been doing, and this is probably like the — they’ve been testing delivery — autonomous delivery with Walmart using the origin form factor or using the — yes, the existing form factor. And so starting to toe dip into what you can do there. Ultimately, there will be many form factors. There’s a lot of challenges that need to be solved. So the last 100 feet, you can’t just have an autonomous vehicle pull up. You got to figure out how does the vehicle get to the end. We have e-carts and things like this and software to help design micro hubbing kind of solutions. You can sort of see the section things could go. So one, it’s going to be huge. Two, I think we’re better positioned than anyone else in the industry to go after it. And I think it’s going to be fine.
Christopher McNally
Yes. Okay. Because the TCO on fuel by itself, we talked about 40% to 50%, but there’s plenty of public figures out there if you remove one of the largest expenses, the driver, you could bring that to almost 75% for last mile.
Travis Katz
Yes. Yes. It’s pretty dramatic. And in a moment now where there literally aren’t enough drivers to do the work, and it’s not a super glamorous job like not lots of people — some people love being drivers, but they’re really having a hard time. It’s really hard — it’s a hard job. So the Trace eCart makes that job easier. Our vehicles are as comfortable as a passenger vehicle. So it’s funny, when you go and talk to some of the drivers who are actually driving these things, they run up and give us hugs. They love these vehicles so much, and they’re very defensive of them. But I think there’s opportunity to do much more.
Christopher McNally
And then, Travis, maybe in the last couple of minutes, what’s next for BrightDrop? If we were to think about the next 12 months of milestones, what are sort of you focused on in the very immediate future? Is it execution? Is it winning more business so that the pipeline is full for years to come? Just what’s your focus?
Travis Katz
We are very, very, very, very focused on scale now. So we are — like I said, we’re opening CAMI in Q4 of this year, and we are going to bring a lot of electric vehicles to market next year. We are going to — yes, we’re going to generate a lot of revenue next year. And so we’re lining up customers. We’re putting in the infrastructure to support those vehicles on the field.
So if I think of my day to day, it’s how do we get ready for scale, how do we make sure we’re ready to support the vehicles in the field. We’re hiring like crazy. A lot of people have been doing layoffs in this moment in time. We are hiring like crazy across all fronts, support, software engineering, development, engineering. We see really big growth ahead. And it’s just — it’s really exciting to be in this moment of hyper growth and real excitement. And so we can’t wait to start talking more specifics about what that’s going to look like.
Christopher McNally
And in that execution, is supply chain — I mean, obviously coming from a smaller base, it’s less of an issue, but is it something that you still focus on because it seems like it’s an issue for everyone?
Travis Katz
Yes. I think we feel pretty good about the supply chain situation heading into next year. It’s — supply chain has thrown us curveball after curveball, but General Motors is one of the best supply chain companies on the planet. We have a lot of people who know how to manage through this. We’ve worked through a lot of the hardest moments. I can’t promise we’re not going to get surprised by something next year. But right now, we’re feeling pretty good about where we’re going to end up next year. We’re not seeing anything on the horizon that’s scaring us.
Christopher McNally
No bad news is good news, right, when it comes to supply chain.
Travis Katz
Yes.
Christopher McNally
Well, Travis, I think we’re hitting our time there. Thank you so much for presenting really and adding to the learning process at BrightDrop on what is a very exciting day for GM in general. So again, thank you so much for being here.
Travis Katz
All right. Thank you for having me.
Be the first to comment