Bank of America Corporation (NYSE:BAC.PK) BofA 27th Annual Financials CEO Conference Call September 20, 2022 8:15 AM ET
Company Participants
Alastair Borthwick – Chief Financial Officer
Conference Call Participants
Alastair Ryan – Bank of America
Alastair Ryan
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for making it speedily back from lunch those of you that have so far and I guess there will be some struggles coming in. We are going to press on. I am disappointed to be the less successful, Alistair on stage. Use connect at least claim to be number one on that front and seriously, delighted to be hosting Alastair Borthwick, the Finance Director of Bank of America. I have some questions for Alastair. And as usual, please feel free to ask anonymously, electronically or if you want to be direct, put your hands up and we will take questions that way. So Alastair, thank you for joining us. Thank you for traveling and fighting through the hurdles that London is throwing up against anybody actually getting here and we do appreciate all of you experienced that as well.
Question-and-Answer Session
Q – Alastair Ryan
So, after running the commercial bank for 9 years, you have now been CFO of the group for about a year. There has been economic recovery, there has been COVID relapse, there has been inflation, there is rate hikes. How has the company managed through those swings in that time?
Alastair Borthwick
First, thank you for having me, it’s fun sharing a stage with someone called Alastair. It doesn’t happen a lot in New York. Second, in terms of the firm, look, we have obviously been presented with the same operating challenges others have over the course of the past 3 years, but the underlying core performance is showing through now in a different way. And that core performance is really one of organic growth, number one. Number two, operating leverage, so keeping our expenses tight relative to revenue growth. And number three, both parts of that equation, whether it’s the revenue or the expense side or both helped by this underlying digital transformation, which if anything COVID has helped to accelerate. It’s not new for us. We have been at it for over a decade. But we are definitely seeing more in the way of customer adoption there and that tends to be very good for both the revenue and the expense side. The organic growth maybe gets a little lost during the first few months of COVID. But obviously, we have had a track record now of adding net new checking accounts across the consumer bank every quarter. You can almost think about it being about $250,000 per quarter or about 1 million a year. The wealth management business is adding 5,000 net new households every quarter now. So that’s again just developing on the organic growth side. And then the commercial teams, as we have continued to invest in headcount and growth there, when I look at what Wendy Stewart has done as my successor, if anything, she is accelerating the acquisition of new companies as clients of our bank and doing more with the existing companies we covered. So, the organic growth is really showing through now. Yes, rates are up. Yes, some of the fee businesses are down, but it’s that core organic customer activity, I think that you are seeing now.
Alastair Ryan
Thank you. So, shifting through the businesses start with the consumer, so the American consumer started traveling again, started spending a little on the credit cards. Have you seen that continue or reverse? And then how the conversation is developing with the wealth clients now that we are in a higher rate environment, does that really shift their behavior?
Alastair Borthwick
Just a little. So first, on the consumer side, we tend to look at two or three different things. The first thing we look at is credit card and debit card spend to see how is the consumer doing. We have pretty frequently at earnings and during updates like this mentioned the fact that the U.S. consumer is still spending double-digits more than last year, which was a record. So, that’s number one. And that continues through September, including the busy Labor Day holiday. Number two, we look at deposit balances, where we have talked about the fact that more or less every cohort has multiples of deposits at the bank than they had pre-pandemic. That’s particularly true for the very low end of consumer. And the question that we get occasionally is, are you seeing that begin to flow out? The answer is no. Deposit balances have remained very steady at record levels. So the consumer is spending more, has more in the bank and the consumer has more borrowing capacity. So, our credit card balances still have not yet recovered to where they were. Payment rates remain very highly elevated, because people have the money in their bank account to pay off their card. So, consumer is in great shape still.
And on wealth management, I’d say we are spending an awful lot of our time with our clients right now, helping them through market volatility, helping them with planning. And we have probably seen a little bit less in the way of securities-based lending activity, because rates have gone up. We have probably seen a little more in the way of upper end wealth balances rotate off of our deposits and into higher yielding fixed income still on the platform, but the wealth management clients look a lot like the consumer clients generally, they are spending and they are in great financial shape.
Alastair Ryan
Thank you. So then shifting on to your oil business, commercial, clients engaged, clients optimistic, clients terrified about inflation, how would you characterize?
Alastair Borthwick
Well, they are definitely concerned with inflation. How could you not be just given all the headlines that we see everyday and it’s not just in the United States, obviously, it’s in the UK, it’s in Japan, today, it’s a global phenomenon. And so, commercial companies are thinking about inflation. They think about supply chain, because that’s obviously a part of the inflation story. At the same time, the activity of commercial clients looks terrific. As I mentioned earlier, we are doing more with our existing clients. We are adding net new clients. And the asset quality of commercial clients is – and remains close to the best we have ever seen. So, the commercial activity at this point remains pretty good. I would say confidence is probably a little lower. One metric for that tends to be our revolver utilization metrics. We obviously provide a lot of revolving credit for companies across the United States and around the world. Revolver balances got quite low following COVID with the huge inflow of deposits. They built back up through June. They have come back down a point or so since June. So, that’s a little bit of a headwind against loan growth at the margin. It’s probably an indicator of confidence. But I think it’s probably the commercial side that’s more impacted by the headlines than anyone else at this stage.
Alastair Ryan
Thank you. And then to your most global business, markets, investment banking, large corporates, I suppose the central banks, as you mentioned in Europe, they have gotten in a mess, because they felt that the real inflation was the American one and here in Europe, it was passing through and now they are chasing it and then China inflation isn’t the thing at the moment. There is a lot of uncertainty. So how would you characterize the global footprint for the businesses you are addressing large corporates and institutions?
Alastair Borthwick
Well, they have the same challenging operating environment that all companies face right now. Most of our American clients operate in multiple countries around the world. So we are following their activity, banking them in different parts. Similarly, over here, most of the big European companies have got presence in the U.S. and in Asia. So, this supply chain dislocation is a global issue. The inflation is increasingly a global issue. It’s not a Japan issue or a UK issue or a Sweden issue or a U.S. issue. It feels more global now. But I’d say, again, generally, the GDP environment remains positive. We haven’t seen it negative yet in terms of any kind of global or U.S. And there is some expectation next year that China rebounds in a different way, which obviously will be quite good for global growth.
Alastair Ryan
Thank you. Now, I am going to shift on to a bank analyst is all I do all day. So I am going to ask a little about capital, because we like talking about capital because it makes us sense. No, we get to use acronyms. But one of the things that we have gotten used in Europe to regulatory changes happening a lot. And I think in the U.S. investors had gotten used to a more stable picture and then the Fed’s move to capital requirements, for Bank of America and other large banks quite meaningfully earlier this year. You have been clear that putting the bank back into surplus position takes a quarter or a period of time. And can you talk about then how you think about capital management just now in the light of that shift?
Alastair Borthwick
Yes. So obviously, the Fed raised our capital requirements by 90 basis points as a result of the stress capital buffer. That wasn’t a change in regime. It was a change in the calculation based off our balance sheet. And our balance sheet, obviously, has grown pretty significantly with the deposits we took in during pandemic and with investments that we have made in different parts of the company. So you sort of see the organic growth there. We are fortunate in that we are already above our regulatory minimum. So the question that we are talking about is how much buffer do we want to have as a management team and we have talked about the fact that we forward 10 basis points above. We would feel better when we are at 50 above. And then looking forward to January of 2024, we know we need to put another 50 basis points for the increase in G-SIB buffer that again reflects the organic growth of the company over a period of time. So good news is we have a lot of time to get there. So in the immediate future, this quarter, next quarter for us it’s about getting above that 50 basis points. And we think we have the kind of earnings generation that allows us to do a little bit of everything. So I think in terms of pursuing what we are trying to do, organic growth, operating leverage, no significant changes for us.
Alastair Ryan
Thank you. Now, one of the things which wasn’t feature of BofA in past times as you repealed the SCB this year, can you give us just a sense of the inconsistencies you saw that prompted that? It’s been – it’s settled down now. But perhaps the more important bit is if the SCB change this year in ways that weren’t perhaps reasonable to have expected before time is a risk that happens again in future periods?
Alastair Borthwick
Okay. So, we did appeal. This is the first time that we have appealed the stress capital buffer and we essentially appealed on what we consider to be an industry-wide issue. And that is that because we took in a lot of deposits during pandemic and because there wasn’t a lot of loans growth in that period, we placed them in largely risk-free securities. And the Fed’s models basically gross up expenses and gross up operating risk losses based on the size of your balance sheet. And we felt like that might be the way the model works. It may even work the way it’s intended, but that’s not necessarily the right result. We don’t have any additional expense. We shouldn’t have any additional operating risk losses. And so that’s what we pointed out to the Fed and we asked them to consider that. And if you saw their letter, they talked about the fact that they will keep the result the same way because the model worked the way they intended, but they asked the staff to look into that for the industry. So we feel like that was a productive appeal. In terms of the future, I don’t know. Obviously, that’s one thing we would like them to address. We think it’s an intuitive thing that they can address, and we will work to answer any questions they have over time. But beyond that, we will wait as we do every year.
Alastair Ryan
Thank you. So just living in the moment, I can say, as you said, a couple of my bosses out there. So in the investment bank markets and banking and one of the things these last couple of years is you put some resources to work, some cost and some capital and that translated quite nicely into some market share and profitability. So if the bank is constraining resources for a while with on capital, does that any step back in the ambitions for these businesses?
Alastair Borthwick
No, I don’t think so. I think with respect to the investment bank, a lot of the investment we’ve made has been around banker headcount. We felt like we’ve got a great franchise in investment banking, and we have great capabilities, great product capabilities. And we simply don’t have the right number of bankers that we would like to cover clients. So you can be a client of the commercial bank in the United States. And we want to make sure that our investment bankers, we have enough of them to call all of those clients so that we can extend all the things that we do. We do a pretty good job, and we feel like we can do an even better job by adding more investment bankers. So a lot of what Matthew Koder has been doing together with the investment banking team is invest in our footprint, invest in our client calling often on clients of the bank already that may not be using us just yet for investment banking. That doesn’t require capital. I mean, ultimately, it requires expense. But that’s something we feel like we can sustain through a period like this. And on the global market side, we have backed and invested in Jimmy Demare’s business by providing more balance sheet, more capital, more liquidity. I think Jimmy feels pretty good about where he is right now. We don’t intend to pull back there. We don’t feel like we need to because we already have the capital. And I think Jimmy and the team are doing a nice job of just as we extend more capital to our clients, our clients have grown. So we’re really talking about – in order to put ourselves in a position where we can do more of what we already do with clients we already work with. When we do that, we tend to see sort of a multiplication where we might be financing a position we do slightly larger and we get more business as a result down the road. So that formula seems to be working for the team, and we feel pretty good about our position there.
Alastair Ryan
Thank you. So I’m just going to dig into – I’m going to check what people throw and dig into the near-term as well here. Start with asset quality. And certainly, over here, it’s hard to get away from investor concerns that something bad is on the horizon, right? I mean there is a lot of moving parts in the economy somehow that’s got to on the bank’s balance sheet, right? And it’s going to be a huge number, and obviously, people’s experience of a couple of cycles ago, that is what happened, right? So just in the near-term, asset quality, net charge-offs pre-pandemic for the bank were about $1 billion a quarter, half of that or so now. When is it $1 billion again? When is it run away above $1 billion, just to kind of frame the discussion?
Alastair Borthwick
Well, I obviously don’t know that. We do get that question a lot. And I think what Brian and I are trying to remind people is we just don’t see it yet. We got a pretty good read on charge-offs from our 90 days past due credit card portfolio in our 30 to 60 bucket and our 5-day bucket. And at this point, we don’t see anything alarming in there. And on the commercial side, whether it’s the United States or whether it is international, we don’t see anything to alarm us there either at this stage. Now obviously, we make sure that we’re being thoughtful when it comes to reserving. And we tend to incorporate, number one, the blue-chip consensus as our base case. And then we also have a 40% downside weighting on top of that. So we’re constantly adjusting the reserves over time, but the underlying core portfolio and the core performance at this point on both consumer and commercial, it’s in terrific shape.
Alastair Ryan
Thank you. Shifting to – so that’s experience, do you build reserves 40% downside weighting, I guess, those are the numbers that wouldn’t say banks so I’m not talking about U.S. accounting. European banks have already given us a number of different views today about how forward-looking they’ll be in until in the bank see the downside. Is that in mind?
Alastair Borthwick
Well, let me answer your question in two parts. So first, already, if you think about the blue-chip consensus, we’re talking about 50 economists. Some of them are more optimistic, some are in the middle and some are more pessimistic. Okay. In addition to that, we’re saying we have a 40% downside weighting on top of that 60%, some of whom are already bearish. Okay. That’s number one. Number two, if you looked at our reserves last quarter, you’re looking and say, we really didn’t add anything, which is true, net, but there are two things going on. Number one, there is reserve build going on for a macroeconomic environment with lower GDP, higher inflation, higher unemployment. So we’re taking more reserve there. And at the same time, we’re releasing from the portfolio all those things that have improved significantly since the world began to reopen after COVID. So we’re in a hotel, all the hotel business is doing much better now. I took a flight over here. The airlines are doing much better. So those two things are both going on in our portfolio at the same time. And it’s just, as you would expect, looking forward, I think we can expect less and less release because those industries have largely healed, which means you’ll start seeing a little more in the way of reserves, without necessarily the environment having changed the great deal. So the reserves will look more like macroeconomics and loans growth.
Alastair Ryan
Thank you. I’m just smiling because he’s paying the bill for this conference, eventually. There has been some inflation in that as well.
Alastair Borthwick
Well, I know you break it to me.
Alastair Ryan
Thank you for joining us. It was nice a bit. Anyway, loans. Lending high single-digit average growth this year as previous guidance, given everything that’s moving as the economy is bigger because of inflation. The economy is doing well, but the outlook is uncertain. Any need to change that?
Alastair Borthwick
No, no need to change. We felt pretty good about the loans environment all through the year. I think this quarter will be a little bit slower partly because like we talked about on the consumer side, you’ve – or the wealth management side, you’ve got a little bit less in the way of securities-based lending, partly because on the consumer side, with rates having gone up, our mortgage activity has slowed. And partly because, like I mentioned earlier, the commercial side, revolver utilization has come down, and 1% is worth a few billion for us. So those things are a little different than the prior quarters, but we still feel good about high single-digit growth for the year.
Alastair Ryan
Thank you. Sorry, I’m just distracted. I really have it’s an ice machine that guy is working on in there something terrible is happening. Thank you. On the deposit side, then, pretty stable balances in consumer accounts. On the commercial side?
Alastair Borthwick
So yes, consumer has been remarkable for its consistency, pretty stable there. The commercial side is sort of what you would expect. The non-operating balances are, in some cases, finding higher-yielding market-based alternatives. So there is a little bit of runoff on the non-operating balances. Those tend not to be – they are also largely valuable to us. But we’ve seen a little bit of runoff there and a little bit of runoff at the very high end of wealth management, where, again, people have an opportunity to rotate out of bank balance and into fixed income, which still may stay in the Merrill Lynch platform.
Alastair Ryan
And then I guess in the light of balance sheet being expensive. I mean it’s a funny idea that funded bank is pretty cheap, but holding balance sheet is expensive in the structure the Feds put in place. So how are you managing the deposit dynamic for the very largest corporates? Because I guess the operating accounts are core to the bank the non-operating accounts, losing some of those perhaps would be the right thing at some point?
Alastair Borthwick
Yes. So – and I think it’s worthwhile reminding everyone, we’re not passive in this. We get to price in each of the customer segments at the price we want in order to get the deposit growth that we want. We’re very fortunate right now. We’re very fortunate in that we have taken in an awful lot of deposits over the course of the past several years. And our loans, when you think about deposits around $2 trillion, think about loans around $1 trillion. We’ve got an awful lot of flexibility. And the other thing that gives us a lot of flexibility is because we have a few hundred billion in our securities portfolio. Remember, every quarter, some of that rolls off. So we get another $15 billion or $20 billion every quarter that we can use to fund loans growth, for example. So those things give us a lot of flexibility with respect to deposit pricing and deposit pricing dynamics. We’re obviously going to also defend our core customer base. So when the consumer bank last quarter added 240,000 net new checking accounts, that’s telling us our value proposition really works at the pricing we’ve chosen. In the commercial side, when Wendy Stewart and the team are bringing in net new customers, that’s telling us that the underlying pricing that we’re providing is competitive. So those dynamics are different by portfolio. But overall, we’re getting exactly what we want in terms of as a firm.
Alastair Ryan
Thank you. And then just on the deposit base, which is a or used to have in Europe, but we’ve all imported it now. We’ve worked out what it is. But I guess we’re always trying to look back at the last cycle or the cycle before where that head. How has the banks experienced so far in this cycle?
Alastair Borthwick
Yes. So the last cycle, our deposit betas ended up shaking out in the low 20s. And we talked about the fact 20%. So, we talked about the fact that this cycle we would like to see that or maybe something slightly better just because we feel like we have invested so much in the customer experience, particularly around all things digital that we are providing the clients with something that’s more valuable. No, we don’t know where deposit betas will shake out, because we don’t know how far the term rate structure will extend and over what time period. But so far, our deposit beta experience has been better than we anticipated. So, that’s one of the things that’s helping us to feel good about our underlying NII guidance.
Alastair Ryan
So, I am going to ask you about that now you have invited it. So, I think – I am looking at Lee here. So, 2Q, the third quarter should have been $900 million or so better in Q3 and then somewhat more than that in Q4. So, the math that would take you to $14.5 billion or so net interest income I think. So, they would be $3 billion up year-over-year, so 4-3 is $12 billion annualized. Am I doing the right kind of math?
Alastair Borthwick
Yes. It is a typical code. I think Lee, you are going to nod here and tell me if I am right. I think we said $900 million in Q3…
Alastair Ryan
Following up.
Alastair Borthwick
And I think we said $900 million to $1 billion or so for Q4. And there is no reason for us to change that. If anything, the term structure is – this moved slightly positively, and our deposit beta experience has been consistent with or maybe even slightly better than we thought. So, we still feel good about the original guidance, and we will give people guidance for Q4 in three weeks or four weeks when we get to earnings.
Alastair Ryan
Thank you. I can’t keep up with writing. Costs, so notwithstanding the generous support for us here. So, you have been holding expenses $60 billion, absent litigation charges this year, 1% or 2% inflation in there. So, how much harder is next year with the inflation rate feeling like it’s a lot more sticky than, I guess most of us would have expected even six months ago?
Alastair Borthwick
Yes. So, every year, it feels like a battle. The key thing for us has been – it’s less about a fixed number. It’s more about this concept of operating leverage. We have got a drive revenues typically above GDP. We have to keep expenses below that. And we have said this year that we think we can keep expenses flat to last year other than the regulatory settlements we made last quarter. And we felt that way because we feel like there are two or three things that we have going for us that offset some of the inflation. The first one is this digital transformation that I am talking about. Every time that we do something electronic and a client takes a photo of a deposit of a check. And does that rather than come into a branch. That’s saving us money. It’s helping the client saving them time. But those sorts of things, we are really talking about technology we have invented 5 years ago or 10 years ago where people are increasingly adopting it. So, that digital transformation continues at pace. It’s allowing us to do more things automated, less paper, more AI. You hear us talking about Erica, which is our chat bot. So, that’s very powerful. The second thing is we have a portfolio of investments that we make every year. And a lot of our investment goes to new customer-enhancing features. And a lot of our investment goes towards ideas that can save us money over the long-term. If you just think about them like any other capital project where there is a return. And some of the investments that we made 3 years ago or 2 years ago or 1 year ago, pay off today. And we called out our operational excellence suite of ideas and projects. So, that’s the number two thing that goes on. And then number three, we have still got some pretty stubborn sticky COVID costs that are still in the business that we have got to find a way to just help as we get – all get back towards more normal. We have an opportunity to save some money there. So, those three things are the things that offset inflation. Now, we are not immune to inflation. And we compete for talent along with everyone else. We want to make this a great place to work. We have increased our minimum for our employees to $22 now. So, we will keep investing in our talent, and we will use those portfolio of ideas to try and just keep the expenses as tight as we can.
Alastair Ryan
Thank you. Now, I am going to use what’s left of my time, and there is a couple of questions from the audience already. Just to ask about the third quarter. Global Banking, nearly at the end of the quarter now. Could you give us an update on the pipeline, the pipeline or fees? And any color on products doing well and under pressure?
Alastair Borthwick
Well, the pipeline is not our problem. The pipeline remains pretty good. And what we really need in the investment banking business is just less volatile markets based environment where we can execute on the business that we have. We have a lot of customers who would – a lot of clients would like to do financing transactions. And this remains a very – is volatile set of capital markets. So, if you think about the things that are doing relatively better, that would be mergers and acquisitions. And if you think about those things that are doing less well, it would be equity capital markets just because of the environment. And I would say we are pretty deep into this quarter, and it feels like we will be kind of flattish to where we were last quarter is my guess.
Alastair Ryan
Thank you. And then in markets close to home, although we don’t sit in markets, but we care. Brian guided a few – week ago or so, better than typical seasonality. I will get the words wrong. But what’s driving a little better than usual? And what is the usual down for us to contextualize that?
Alastair Borthwick
Yes. So, normally, third quarter would be down 5% to 10% relative to second quarter. And I think what Brian said was we have had a better go of it than we would normally expect. So, he sort of said it would probably be down single – low-single digits, which I think is probably the right starting point. And then what’s doing better is the thick macro businesses. Those are the ones where we have invested. We feel like that’s a real opportunity for us to grow with our client base. So, we have tended to put a little bit more there. And that’s the place that’s really outperformed.
Alastair Ryan
And if you were putting some fit macro better equity is a bit worse, and that’s the return on investments you have made? Is that a fair way of thinking about it?
Alastair Borthwick
Well, equity is also when equity indices fall along with that balances fall and financing falls. So, they are probably a little more impacted there. And then the other part of FICC credit, that tends to be a place where we do pretty well. Obviously, credit this year has been just a tougher environment just given what’s going on with spreads.
Alastair Ryan
Thank you. Now you can’t put your hands up, but I quite like some of the questions. We will start with these. Why wouldn’t we worry about the housing market, I think it’s an American question.
Alastair Borthwick
Fair enough. Well, I think all of us worry about the housing market, and we always will. But in terms of our own portfolio, we have tried to put out some statistics at the end of Q2 that show just the dramatic transformation of our portfolio. Our home equity portfolio is one-tenth the size that it was pre-pandemic – sorry, global financial crisis. And the LTVs and our mortgages now are well below 60%. So, we have a pretty robust portfolio as it relates to anything in the way of a housing price shock. And I think it’s probably one of the reasons why if you look at the Fed’s last 12 stress tests, we have got the lowest loan loss rate, 11 of the last 12. We just – when we talk about responsible growth, that’s what we are talking about. It’s positioning our balance sheet to make sure that we can sustain our performance through any cycle. And we learned that experience, obviously, in 2008 and 2009, the hard way. This management team is not going to repeat that.
Alastair Ryan
Thank you. This is – I have done on the answer to this. That was a good question. I have recently heard about fraudulent activity increasing within U.S. banking. Has this been your experience? Is this historically a lead indicator of credit performance? It’s a bit of a careful. It’s quite an interesting question.
Alastair Borthwick
I don’t know on the last part is fraud a leading indicator of credit. So, I don’t know the answer. It could be, it could be correlated, may be worth looking into. I am sure there are people who will know that, but I do not. On the first part of the question, in terms of any meaningful fraud related, I mean I think we have seen little bits here and there, but nothing that we have chosen to call out or nothing at this point that we have chosen to highlight in earnings.
Alastair Ryan
Thank you. And well, this one, Lee loved this. What’s different in risk profile from the last crisis that plays to one of your slides? I guess you have talked about that in the housing market. Anything you would highlight in commercial?
Alastair Borthwick
Well, the other thing we tried to put a couple of different slides together in our earnings package last time around because we are getting this question a lot like there are so many headlines. The credit quality could turn around and are you positioned in a different way. So, we just talked about mortgage. I won’t go there. But if you look at our balance of consumer versus commercial, we are more balanced. If you look at the diversification, we are more global. We are less all U.S. So, we feel like we have reduced our profile – our risk profile generally by spreading bets in a different way. And in addition, if you look at the underlying pieces like if you were to step away from mortgage, for example, and look at commercial real estate, we do so much less in the way of construction lending. We tend to lend to fully leased-up projects. And our LTVs there have changed also. So, we have just fundamentally changed the composition of our book and our underwriting standards really starting 10 years ago and 9 years ago, 8 years ago. So, the bank that you buy today or the bank you are invested in today, when we talk about responsible growth, we are just positioned very, very differently. And I would encourage you to just take a look back at the second quarter earnings release because we put it out. We may do something similar again this quarter because we get asked the same questions.
Alastair Ryan
Thank you. And there is an excellent place to finish. Alastair, thank you very much indeed for joining us today.
End of Q&A
Alastair Borthwick
Alright. Thank you. Thanks for having me.
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