Investor AB (OTCPK:IVSXF) Q4 2021 Results Earnings Conference Call January 21, 2022 7:00 AM ET
Company Participants
Viveka Hirdman-Ryrberg – Head of Corporate Communication and Sustainability
Johan Forssell – Chief Executive Officer
Helena Saxon – Chief Financial Officer
Magnus Dalhammar – Head of Investor Relations
Conference Call Participants
Derek Laliberte – ABG Sundal Collier
Joachim Gunell – DNB Markets
Oskar Lindström – Danske Bank
Daniel Swärd – Sword Invest
Viveka Hirdman-Ryrberg
Welcome to Investors annual accounts 2021 presentation. We’re glad that you’re joining us here today and you can join us over the phone or over the Web on our website, investorab.com.
We will soon hear our CEO, Johan Forssell, and CFO, Helena Saxon, present the annual accounts. And after that, we will have a Q&A session. And you can post your questions then over the phone as usual or also in the chat on the Web.
Warm welcome. And by that, I hand over to you, Johan.
Johan Forssell
Thank you, Viveka. And welcome to this quarterly result presentation. So, if we start on the first page, despite all the challenges that we had during the past year, we did, in fact, see a gradual improvement of the global economy during the year. And of course, that in combination with the low interest rate environment also supported the stock market. And the strong equity market, of course, benefited Investor, but even adjusting for that, I think it’s fair to say that 2021 was a very strong year for Investor.
During the year, our net asset value grew by more than 40% and our total shareholder return was up 55%, and that can be compared with the stock market in Sweden being up 39%.
And if we look on the corresponding figure for the fourth quarter, our net asset value was up 12% and our total shareholder return was up 21%, and that can be compared with the stock market being up 12%.
Importantly, I think that, overall, that our companies are delivering good operational performance. They have been able to really manage the challenges out there, not the least the pandemic and the supply chain related challenges.
On the Listed Companies, a number of the companies have made important strategic acquisitions and investments during the year. Within Patricia, a number of the companies have made sizable add-on acquisition, and I will come back to that later on.
The Investment in EQT developed strongly during the year and was up more than 100%. And the cash flow at SEK 4.8 billion was the second best in the history.
We sharpened our climate targets and we are continuously putting high effort in sustainability, putting in our value creation plans, and especially, of course, an extra focus is on the energy transitions that affect a number of our companies.
Due to the strong performance during the year and also the strong financial position that we have with the leverage of less than 2%, the board decided to increase the dividend per share from SEK 3.50 to SEK 4, which is an increase of 14%.
So, a few words about the listed companies. The total shareholder return was up 44% in 2021, and it was up 11% in the fourth quarter. The priorities areas for these companies are sustainability, including the energy transition, innovation, technology development, and then talent management and succession planning. And we are spending a lot of time, of course, on making sure we have the right people in the board, in the management teams, in our companies.
I mentioned that there has been a number of important acquisitions in the listed companies. A few examples are Ericsson’s acquisition of Vonage, expanding the business into the enterprise segment. We have the Electrolux Professional that did an important acquisition in the US. And we also had Husqvarna that made the acquisition on Orbit Irrigation. And together with the Gdynia division, they will be clearly in that area globally.
We have the bid on Sobi that was withdrawn. We supported the bid, in line with the board of Sobi. But the fact is that the bidder came up to 87% and not 90%. So it did not go through. And now, our focus is just to work close with the company and really make sure that we maximize the long-term value creation of this fine company. We should not forget that Sobi has a very strong position within rare diseases and we will be fully behind to develop the company.
During the quarter, we invested SEK 1 billion in Ericsson, and we basically took an opportunity after announcement of the Vonage acquisition. This stock took a hit and we saw good value and invested in Ericsson.
Moving down over to Patricia. The total return was 3% during the year. It was down 1% in the fourth quarter and Helena will come back to that later on.
Atlas Antibodies became a new subsidiary for us in connection with the acquisition of evitria. And it’s great to see that the start has been excellent and evitria that was acquired has delivered a very good performance after the acquisition.
During the year, we divested Grand Hôtel and several of the subsidiaries made important add-on acquisitions that I will comment a little bit on the next page.
We have Advanced Instruments that you have seen since we acquired the company roughly a year ago, have actually performed extremely well, ahead of our expectations when we made the acquisition.
They recently acquired Solentim, which has a very strong leading position in the niche of cell line development. And this company has had a very strong quarter and the beauty here is that they boost the old Advanced Instruments with the osmolality testing instruments. And Solentim, they have a significant exposure to the biopharma industry. So, we see good opportunities to sell these to the same customers. In addition, we see significant potential to develop on the R&D side even stronger products for the future.
Atlas Antibodies, I mentioned the acquisition of evitria has built a very strong position within antibodies. Sarnova acquired Allied 100, which is active within AEDs or heart starters. BraunAbility acquired Q’straint. They have a very strong market share when it comes to securement wheelchairs in different kind of vehicles.
In total, Patricia has invested SEK 6 billion in add-on acquisitions. And there are, of course, couple of the other companies that have also made acquisitions, smaller ones during the year. In the fourth quarter, we announced that Piab, for example, acquired AirBest in China. And with that acquisition, they will significantly improve the market position in the Chinese market.
If we then move to the operational performance of the company. During the quarter, the organic sales for the subsidiaries was down 10% and the profit was down 23%. If we exclude Mölnlycke that I will come back to, the major subsidiaries had a very good development with an organic sales groups of 8% and a profit growth of 24%.
But saying a few words then about Mölnlycke. I think it’s fair to say that the development in the quarter was in line with our expectations and also in line with what we tried to communicate in connection with the third quarter report.
We have a situation where, on the one hand, wound care, which represents a little bit more than 50% of revenues in the quarter, they continue to develop really well with an organic growth of 8% and a strong profitability. On the other hand, we have more challenges during the quarter in surgical that was down 48%. But that figure is heavily distorted by the PPE contracts that we have talked about many times. And as you can see on the chart, the PPE contracts really peaked in the fourth quarter of 2020. And in this quarter, it was basically zero. That loss explains most of the sales loss during the quarter compared to last year.
The other challenge was gloves. And that is related to the fact that we previously had to close our plants in Malaysia that produces these gloves. And that has also affected the fourth quarter of last year. This is a highly profitable product. So, this also had a significant impact on the profitability in the quarter.
If we then look forward, we can split the different parts, I think, and comment one by one. Wound care, I mentioned, good development and we hope and expect that it will continue to develop well in the future. When it comes to gloves, the plant is now up and running at 100% capacity, but there are still transportation challenges, especially when it comes to transporting these gloves from the plant in Malaysia to the important market in the US. So, you have different kinds of supply chain challenges in ports, in transportation and so forth. But, overall, we expect now that gloves gradually, during the year, will improve and there is a very strong backlog and strong demand for the products and Mölnlycke have very strong products in this area. So, hopefully, this should gradually improve during the year.
When it comes to the PPE contract, as I mentioned, the peak was clearly in the fourth quarter of 2020. We also had some PPE sales in the first quarter 2021. So that will affect the next quarter, but not to the same extent as in the fourth quarter. And then, there is a very small part remaining in the second quarter of 2021. After that, it has been zero. So, gradually, this year-over-year effect should diminish.
Saying then a few words about the other subsidiaries. Atlas Antibodies had a very good organic growth of 19%. evitria grew faster than the old Atlas Antibodies, but both were growing in the quarter. And you can see the profitability was at the very high level and improved slightly compared to last year.
Advanced Instruments had a very strong development, with an organic growth of 18%. The acquisition that I mentioned previously, Solentim, they are, of course, not part of the organic growth, but they grow significantly faster than the 18%. The underlying profit margin is down about 3% year-over-year, and the main reason is that Solentim has a lower margin than the old Advanced Instruments. Roughly on an EBITDA level, you can say that old Advanced Instruments were running at, call it, the 50% margin while Solentim is running at roughly 30% margin.
Laborie, strong development. Organic growth of 14%. And as you can see also, very sharp profitability improvement. Here we did see good growth in all areas, both urology, GI and also maternal and child business.
BraunAbility continued to recover and grew by 14% in the quarter. Here we did see that the margin was actually slightly below last year, and that is mainly related to supply chain challenges that is affecting BraunAbility. This was partly mitigated by price increases.
Piab grew 8% in the quarter and the profitability was down, as you can see, but that is mainly impacted by a write-down of a discontinued product line and the transaction cost related to the Chinese acquisition, AirBest, that I mentioned previously. The underlying development in Piab is strong.
Permobil grew 6% organically in the quarter. And in this quarter, it was mainly driven by Europe and the US while Asia was flat. Here we did see that the margin was down. And in Permobil, this was impacted by investment in a strategic product development project that the company is driving. And that was the key reason for the margin fall. But even if we exclude that part, the margin was actually down somewhat year-over-year. And that is mainly related to increased costs for supply and logistics challenges.
Sarnova was flat in the quarter, and there are two key reasons for that. Number one, emergency preparedness business was very strong in the fourth quarter 2020 due to COVID-19. That was not repeated to the same level this year. And secondly, in this quarter, the AED or heart starter business had significant supply chain challenges since they actually have chips in them. So, that is the reason the revenue cycle management business and the acute business both grew in the quarter. And you can see the profitability is solid. So, Sarnova is also continuing to develop well underlying.
EQT, of course, fantastic return, up more than 100% during the year and 30% in the quarter. Of course, to a large extent, driven by the strong share price increase in the listed company, EQT AB. But as you can see, also the funds developed very strong returns during the year, up 70%. SEK 4.8 billion in cash flow to Investor, as I mentioned before. That’s the second highest ever. And there has been a very high fund activity within EQT during the year.
And during the year, they made two strategic acquisition. The biggest one was Exeter within the real estate market, adding about €9 billion to asset under management. And then they also did an acquisition in Europe, Life Sciences Partner, which is a healthcare venture cap business with about €2 billion asset under management.
So, looking forward, I think that we are well positioned to continue to deliver good returns. But if we try to frame it a little bit, of course, we know that the tailwind that we had in 2021, with an improved economy, low interest rates, that is, of course, fading through now into the start of the year. But we are also seeing, of course, a number of challenges and uncertainties, not the least the spiraling inflation that we have seen. And it’s very clear that Fed now has indicated that they will increase the interest rates.
In addition to that, the supply chain challenges remain, and they will remain in the first quarter. Hopefully, they will then gradually be easing out. But let’s see how it develops, but we can see that it will continue to be supply chain challenges in the first quarter.
And then we are, in addition to that, of course, also seeing the geopolitical tensions increasing. We have talked about China and the US before. And then, of course, we have the situation around Ukraine.
So, all in all, it is not unlikely, I think, that we will see some increased volatility entering 2022. But for us at Investor, I think we have a strong position. We have a portfolio of very strong companies in attractive markets with strong market shares. And we have a very strong financial position at Investor. So, if there will be volatility, there will also be opportunities, and I think that we are ready to act.
Our strategy remains firm. We will have to focus on our prioritized areas that I talked about before, technology development, sustainability, people questions, to mention the key areas.
And then, even though we have a clear strategy and clear focus areas, I think it’s important to highlight that we understand that we need to work very hard every quarter on efficiency because, of course, the long-term consists of many short terms. So, execution, not the least with all the supply chain challenges, will be top on the mind during the year.
And with that, I hand over to Helena.
Helena Saxon
Okay. Thank you, Johan. Okay, so let’s first have a look at the adjusted net asset value. And this graph shows the development for the last five years. And we can see that the year ended at SEK 761 billion in adjusted net asset value. And we can also see that the average annual growth with dividend added back for this five-year period amounts to 20%.
And looking at the total return by business area, we can also see that it’s quite a mixed picture. The smallest business area, EQT, delivered a total return of 30% in the fourth quarter, as much as 111% in the year, as Johan already mentioned. And the Listed Companies, which is two-thirds of the portfolio, had a strong year as well, with 11% in the quarter and 44% for the full year. While at the same time, Patricia had a tougher quarter, the value development minus 1%. And for the year, the total return was 3%.
So, looking a little closer at Listed Companies, we can see that the total amount of Listed Companies amounted to SEK 515 billion at the end of the quarter. And while Q4 TSR was just below SIXRX, the return for the year, the total shareholder return of 44% beat SIXRX of 39%.
And, of course, there was a mix of performances in that portfolio as well. And while the Ericsson and Saab share prices development was flat, we saw several companies, not the least NASDAQ, SEB, ABB, Atlas Copco and Epiroc performing over 50% or more in the year.
And then, going over to Patricia Industries and the sequential development of the estimated market values in the quarter. While we already said that here was more of a flat development, but still there was several companies values that developed well and increased, while Permobil and Mölnlycke weighed on performance in this quarter. And on the next slide, we can see the major drivers.
So, Mölnlycke’s estimated market value declined by SEK 2.2 billion in the quarter. This was due to lower multiples, lower earnings, partly mitigated by the cash flow. And there was also distribution in the quarter of €50 million to Patricia Industries.
Permobil value declined SEK 1.7 billion due to lower multiples and earnings. Laborie, on the other hand, was up SEK 0.5 billion due to higher earnings and currency effects that were also positive, but also here multiples contracted. Vectura’s value increased by SEK 0.7 billion, and this was due to an increase of the value of the property portfolio.
Our financial position at the end of the year was very strong, and the leverage declined to below 2%. And on the next slide, I will show that we are also maintaining our financial flexibility. And I know you’ve seen these graphs before, but they are now updated with a six year. And you can see that the sources of cash flow are several or actually all business areas contribute to the cash flow, and together they delivered SEK 122 billion for the last six years.
And then, you might wonder, what do we use this cash flow for? Well, half of it is distributed to shareholders through dividends. A third, almost a third has been used to develop the Patricia portfolio. And during this period, six new subsidiaries have been acquired. We’ve also invested in the Listed Companies. And during this period, we’ve also reduced net debt by SEK 6 billion. And leverage is down from in the beginning of the period to just below 2%, as I mentioned earlier, from 7% to 2%.
As you know, our goal is to pay a steadily rising dividend and the Investor board has decided based on an overall strong 2021 and our financial position to propose a dividend of SEK 4 per share to the AGM in May, and this dividend will be paid out in two installments, SEK 3 plus SEK 1 during the year, May and November.
So, we will end on my favorite slide which shows the average annual total return to shareholders. And you can see that, in all these periods, we have managed to achieve our internal return requirements. But we have also managed to outperform SIXRX, both in the short and the long term.
And that concludes my part of the presentation. And with that, I hand over to you, Viveka.
Viveka Hirdman-Ryrberg
Thank you. Thank you, Johan. And thank you, Helena. We will now move over to our Q&A session. I know we have a few questions that have come in over the chat on the web. But I thought we’ll start out with – if we have any questions over the phone. And by that, I would like to hand over to our operator.
Question-and-Answer Session
Operator
[Operator Instructions]. Our first question comes from Derek Laliberte with ABG.
Derek Laliberte
I was wondering on the dividend decision, if you could just provide a bit more clarity on the background of the decision. I know that you strive to pay a steadily rising dividend. But it’s what’s actually the largest percentage increase in quite some time if we adjust for the sort of pandemic costs, lower dividend. So, I was wondering, could you just sort of consider the factors of the cash flows related to dividends and transactions in the portfolio, how you view the investment pipeline and, obviously, the low net gearing situation. Probably, everything played in, but I think you only mentioned the leverage comment in the report. So, any additional favor there will be helpful.
Johan Forssell
I think that the reasoning in the board regarding the dividend level was made on a holistic view. We had a very strong year. And we believe that, even though, as I mentioned, there are a lot of challenges and uncertainties out there, but I think that our companies are generally in good shape. We have a strong year behind us and we have a very strong financial position, both when it comes to the leverage, but we also have a very strong gross cash position of about SEK 24 billion. So all in all, the Board concluded that this is the level that we believe is justified.
Derek Laliberte
I was wondering, on Mölnlycke, if you can say something about the margin outlook here. That was down quite a bit in the quarter, considering all these factors with the increased raw materials prices and supply chain related issues, et cetera.
Johan Forssell
You know that we don’t give forecasts in areas that we don’t know because we don’t want to guess. But if I tried to say a few words about what we do believe, what we see right now, and then, of course, what will happen in the coming months and the coming year is always difficult to predict. But I think it’s fair to say that, if you look on the things that really put the weight on the margin in the quarter, and starting with gloves, over the year, we clearly expect to see a clear improvement both on the sales level and profitability on gloves.
In the first quarter, there will remain challenges because there are still – even though the factory is up and running in Malaysia, there are still challenges to get it out to the customers. And sometimes you will have to take more expensive routes to reach the customers. But after that, from the second quarter and onwards, we expect to see clear improvements, of course, as long as the demand level stays firm, but there is a good backlog when it comes to gloves.
If you take away the PPE business or the contract, the big PPE contracts within surgical, and you look on the remaining parts are what we call the ORS business – clothes, drapes, trays and so forth – I think it’s fair to say that this business has been a little bit more than average or clearly more than average hit by the logistic challenges. And that is something that the management team is working on, working with efficiency, finding new solutions, and also in a number of cases actually working on the pricing to adjust for the increased cost levels we are seeing. So, there are clear plans in place to address not only the top line, but also the profitability. So, that is what we see and the management is working on all these areas.
Derek Laliberte
Finally, on the surgical business adjusted for PPE, how did that grow in the quarter? Apologies if this is mentioned somewhere.
Johan Forssell
No, it is not. But if you take the ORS business excluding the PPE contracts, it was down slightly in the quarter year-over-year. If you look on the gloves year-over-year, it was down significantly compared to last year in terms of revenues.
Operator
Our next question comes from Joachim Gunell with DNB Markets.
Joachim Gunell
So to follow up on Derek’s initial question, can the raised dividend now be seen slightly in the light of the [indiscernible]? In the Q3 report, you made a slight nuance shift to the dividend policy because, obviously, this will be not volatile, but it will shift from year to year your upstream cash flow generation, but then it is still – you’re still only, let’s say, paying like roughly 50% of versus the cash flows now. So, can we expect more, call it, flexible dividend policy going forward that should follow the cash flow trajectory more.
You should not read that there is any connection with slightly higher dividend increase this year to the change within the wording of the dividend policy. The changed wording on the dividend policy was mainly related to the fact that we now – more and more, as you know, we focus on the adjusted net asset value, while the previous dividend policy referred to book values. So, that was the key reason for the change. So, the increase of 14% this year was more related to holistic judgment that I mentioned earlier that the Board did based on our financial position and the overall performance.
Joachim Gunell
Obviously, very well capitalized. Another solid financial position here. But in regards to the withdrawn bid for Sobi, does this in any way, call it, have any implications for your capital allocation framework or investment priorities going into this year?
Johan Forssell
Sorry, I didn’t hear. You mean that the situation, the fact that Sobi was not divested, if that will affect our investments?
Joachim Gunell
Yes.
Johan Forssell
No, I don’t think it will materially affect that. Of course, if Sobi would have been divested over a number of years, we would have needed to step up the investment pace. But given the strong financial position we have with the gross cash of SEK 24 billion and the leverage below 2%, we have ample of flexibility to act on the opportunities we see, both in Patricia, Listed and also opportunities within EQT.
Joachim Gunell
The final one from me with regards to the fact that you bought Ericsson shares here in Q4. Can you just talk a bit about the, call it, investment process for those decisions? Looking at the historical levels where you have built your positions in core holdings that have proven to be in the quite lucrative timing. So, how does that framework work? And also with regards to that, how do your perceived intrinsic value of your holdings shift?
Johan Forssell
Of course, we have invested in a number of companies over the last couple of years. And we have actually been able to generate a very good return, well above 20% on those investments. But if you take Erickson as one example where we have increased our ownership from 5% to 8% now over some five, six, seven years, the initial purchases we did, we did at very attractive levels. I don’t have the exact figures, but it was probably in the SEK 50, SEK 55 per share a number of years back. Then the second phase was actually in in March or so 2020 when we had the big setback in connection with the outburst of corona. And at that time, we probably bought at something like SEK 65, SEK 70. And in this case, we have acquired shares for slightly below SEK 94 per share. And in this case, we did it after the announcement of the Vonage acquisition, the stock took a hit, and we saw an opportunity and we saw good value. So we took it. And the reason why we see good value is that we think that management has done a good job over a number of years to improve the market position, taking a lead on 5G, also improving profitability. And now, with the latest acquisition, also expanding into new growth areas within the enterprise segment. So, we basically saw good value and we can be rather flexible to act on that.
Operator
Our next question comes from Oskar Lindström with Danske Bank.
Oskar Lindström
A couple of questions for me. The first one is touching on, I think, what the previous two questions were about as well, and that’s rising input costs and logistics troubles and costs were evident in Q4. Following up on that, to what extent and when do you expect to compensate or have compensated for this through your price increases? And in what companies do you see this taking longer time to achieve that compensation, and I’m talking about your Patricia companies?
Johan Forssell
It, of course, depends on both the length of the contracts and it depends on the customers and the competitive situation, how much you can act when it comes to pricing. But I think it’s fair to say that that all our companies are working on this at the moment. And in some cases, of course, it’s easier to raise prices and in some cases it’s more tough. In some cases, you might have stronger, bigger buyers, and it might also be the fact that you have longer time horizon on existing contracts. And if you have that, of course, you will have to eat the cost increases in the short term, while it will take some time to get the price increases filter through. In other cases, you can act very quickly, and you can raise prices to do the compensation for it. So, it differs between companies based on these two aspects.
But I do not want to comment on the pricing initiatives in the individual companies, but price management is high on our agenda and the companies’ agendas.
Oskar Lindström
Just a follow-up please. Are we going to see that you, in Q1, have raised prices, so that there’s sort of a couple of the companies in your portfolio where we’ll see the sort of step change in pricing or price mix, if you will, in Q1 versus Q4?
Johan Forssell
For sure, there will be a number of our companies that will raise prices in the first quarter. But if I should guess how it will play out, I would rather say that that supply chain challenges will for sure exist during the first quarter and some of the pricing increases will not filter through as early as first quarter. So, I think from a timing perspective, first quarter, we still need to work very hard on these issues. But gradually over the year, we should hopefully see an improvement when it comes to pricing out and the cost side.
Oskar Lindström
Second question for me is on acquisitions. And you’ve signaled – we listened to you last year or end of last year that you were very interested in making acquisitions as the COVID pandemic was nearing its end and you have a greater ability to visit potential targets, et cetera. Has that interest in making acquisitions shifted in any way, given what we’ve seen since then with more worries about higher interest rates, increased geopolitical risk, has that shifted or impacted in any way your appetite for acquisitions?
Johan Forssell
Of course. We need to follow the macroenvironment and how that can affect the overall situation. But I would say basically no because we have a very strong pipeline when it comes to the potential add-on acquisitions in in our subsidiaries. And we have a continued strong pipeline, as I mentioned, in this quarter, to be executed. Piab executed on the AirBest acquisition and they have also executed just the other day a smaller company in lifting automation in France. We have Permobil that have acquired Panthera within manual wheelchairs, which are the world leader on light manual wheelchairs. Those kind of opportunities, we have a road the big pipeline for many of our companies and also some larger ones. And we will continue to work, if we believe they work in attractive niches, that they are a leading player in these niches or constraints in the position of our companies and that we can acquire the company at a reasonable price, then we will hit it.
Operator
[Operator Instructions]. Our next question comes from Daniel Swärd with Sword Invest.
Daniel Swärd
Yes, I would like to congratulate you on a great year, and I only have one question. Can you count on a dividend increase of SEK 0.5 is the new normal for the years to come? Or will go back to raising the dividend by a SEK 0.25 like in previous years. So, there was a lost kroner, so to say, due to corona in 2020. Is that related to this increase now? Or is it the new normal, this rise?
Johan Forssell
And I cannot answer the question because what will happen, of course, is that when we are here a year from now, the board will once again make a holistic view and determine what they believe is the right level on the dividend. Our policy is to have steadily rising dividend over time. Exact how many percent is that corresponds to? That might vary over time. But I do believe that we have a strong underlying portfolio, both on the listed side and on the private side that generates significant cash flow because normally we have capital light – or we actually have very capital light companies. And that’s, of course, is the strategic benefit that we have. That should support our dividend policy. But exact levels, we will have to see where we are in the year from now.
Operator
At this time, there’s no further questions. I hand back to our speakers.
Viveka Hirdman-Ryrberg
Thank you. I know we have a few questions over the web. And, Magnus, why don’t you come and you read them out?
Magnus Dalhammar
Thank you. Sorry. And the first one is from [indiscernible] of Citi. Thanks for taking my questions. Two for me. How much flexibility do you have to pass an input cost to customers if inflation and supply chain challenges persist. That one is already answered, I think. So, there were several add-on investments with Patricia portfolio this year. You expect the same pace during 2022 or any step change or anything [indiscernible]?
Johan Forssell
I can only say that we have a good pipeline when it comes to potential add-on acquisitions, and then it is, as always, it takes two to tango and the price needs to be the right one. So, it’s actually impossible to give an answer on that one.
Viveka Hirdman-Ryrberg
No more questions? Okay. Thank you. By that, we would like to thank you for joining us here today. And we will report our Q1 results on the 21st of April. So see you then, if not before. Thank you so much.
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